EVE Search - 3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its CCP!

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

3.6 Million Dollar per year isk seller fingered... its CCP!

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 00:24:00 - [1] Another CCP sugar coated dev blog regarding the "nasty evil isk sellers" had the usual couple of things in it that didnt sit quite right. There was an odor of something fishy. And i dont mean the tuna and anchovie that drips out of the end of their free CCP gourmet rolls and splatters all over their keyboard. So I jumped on over to the Timecode Bizaree and took a look at the volumes of cards that were being trafficd. Remember, these are not cards bought by a player to take advantage of exchange rates to fund their own subscriptions. They are bought by players to lazy or incompetant or lackluster to earn the isk for themselves in game - and instead take the shortcut to riches - gaining a huge advantage over players who choose the honest in game route to slowley building up their empires. I took a look at one random page of posts. In that page, 36 time codes were sold with an average value of 258 million isk each. Over 9 Billion isk sold on the page. 1100 dollars US worth of codes. Thats quite a lot of isk being sold you might think.... well here is the kicker. There are 11 similar pages for the day A quick check of the other pages revealed a similar amount being sold each page. A quick check through the year also yielded similar amounts. Thats 10 thousand dollars a day flowing into CCPs coffers. 3.5 million dollars a year. Its also 90 Billion isk flowing unearned into peoples coffers per day - rubbishing CCP Gimnis statement that Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory. Quote: Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. They might want to consider that their own 'legal secure method' gives people the opportunity to do just that. In a war with another corporation and lose your carrier in a hard thought out and bitterly fought out engagement with some players who dont buy isk? Simply flog 5 GTC and get another. Use it tommorow and its a slap in their face tee-hee. Isnt life fun. Its a further indication of how business rules over ethics for many at CCP - despite their protestations. This is all well and good. CCP is a business - in it to make money. They create a good product. Many aspects of the game are very good. Their GM's in particular have been top notch in all my dealings with them. Just dont go all holier then thou on us and release patronising dev posts like that one - when your rolling in bought isk dollars. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 00:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 00:42:15 Originally by: Quelque Chose Edited by: Quelque Chose on 09/04/2008 00:33:53 Originally by: Le Skunk If you bought enough codes, you could shift 90 billion isk a day. "Supply and demand" would not be affected in the slightest. CCP endorse buying your way to victory. Current average for 30 day GTC is about 160 mil. 30 day gtc costs $15 US. 90bn ISK = ~600 gtc = $9000 US. Please show me the guy who spends 9 grand a day on a video game as I need somebody new to mooch off of. CCP Grimmi says: Quote: Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset. This is patently incorrect. An individual CAN use the secure system to gather tens of billions of isk AND upset the game balance. CCP Grimmi is trying to convey the impression that one of the major difference in what happens with the isk selling sites and what ccp are doing is that nobody could possibly abuse it. This is a falsehood. Originally by: "ccp" Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. If people have (as this suggests) banded together and used real life moeny in order to fuel a war (or the all encomposing other activiteis) and this is lambasted by CCP as something 'evil and wrong' then why are they activley promoting the means to do exaclty the same thing in a dev blog. Looking thourgh the forums you regually see people seeling 10 or 20 GTC in one go. MOre then enough to 'Fund a war'. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 00:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Cambarus TBQH I prefer the thought of the owners of the game profiting from any isk buying that goes on, and CCP lining their wallets doesn't cause systems to be mined out by bot miners... This is a perfectly fine standpoint to take. So why is CCP chugning out such patently untrue propoganda in their dev blogs. Why cant they give the playerbase it straight 1) We (CCP) want money in our pockets 2) You can buy as much isk from us as you could possibly need for any purpose you like if you are prepared to spend enough money on it (via secure GTC) 3) We dont care about any advantage you get over other 'in game honest' players 4) Doing the above will cut out macro miners and ensure the continuation of the game development. There is nothing at all wrong with any of the above. I would not condemn them for it if they came out with it straight. Instead they either keep quiet or muddy the waters with patronising and innacurate dev blogs. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 01:36:00 - [4] Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 01:36:17 Originally by: Woodwraith I dont have time to sit and grind and market wh**/rat/mission whatever isk income people have. I work 50+ hours a week. your buying a month off of someone who has the time to make isk through in-game means and not the money out of game to subscribe. Lets imagine you decide to take up tennis. And enter a local league. Would you storm in with your wallet out saying "Hey nerds. I work a 50 hour week man. And i aint got time to practice. So im going to pay 2 grand right now to win the trophy. Horray im the winner. Right im off. Taxi to the squash club. And make it snappy! dont you know i work a 50 hour week." Quote:** seriously, are we supposed to believe people are buying carriers on their PayPal accounts? This shows your ignorance of the issue. Yes people do buy carriers on their paypal accounts. People sell 10 or 20 or 30 GTC in one sitting. In fact heres one selling 15 at a time from the front page of the GTC bizarre - Free bump for him. Get em while they are hot. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744843 Nothing wrong with what hes doing. Its all CCP legal. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 02:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 02:00:32 Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 02:00:11 Originally by: Akita T I half-hartedly agree with the first part of this small part of your entire OP. The one bad thing CCP did was to sugar-coat the fact that selling GTCs is still buying ISK. We all know full well that the only differences (for an ISK buyer) between selling GTCs and buying ISK from a RMTer are: * the inconvenience factor for GTCs opposed to the risk factor for RMT * the ISK a certain amount of money buys (lower if GTCs are used, higher if RMT is used) But here ends all agreement I can have with your point of view. There's plenty of plus sides for allowing GTC trade, and reducing RMT occurences is one of them. A more agressive awareness campaign should be conducted, one that will explain in great detail why exactly GTC-for-ISK is so much better than USD-for-ISK for the game economy, the community as a whole and so on. At no point should they try to make it sound as if somebody couldn't wage excessively disadvantageous wars, if only they are willing to waste enough real-life money (but the fact that via GTC it costs them much more SHOULD be stressed out). The reason why this awareness campaign is needed ? Because, apparently, people STILL can't tell what the fundamental differences between GTC and RMT are. My argument was with the patronising, innacurate and misleading DEV post. They could end all debate by simply coming out and being honest about things instead of 'sugar coating' their business strategy. Why you are championing a post which actualy does the opposite of what you seem to be wanting (that is A Clear and Accurate campaign to 'educate' people about the trade) is beyond me. Your argument that "There's plenty of plus sides for allowing GTC trade, and reducing RMT occurences is one of them" stinks however. Because people are making money selling dwugs to the kids - the government should knock up some Kiosks and start floggin it themselves eh? It will be ok as long as they get the money for it instead of the crims? Anyhows, stop daming me with faint praise. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 03:02:00 - [6] Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/04/2008 03:03:20 Originally by: Malcanis No, it is not reasonable to suppose that whole alliances are funding wars with GTCs. 1.6B (10 cards) barely buys a single, unfitted dreadnought. Perhaps so. But CCPs devblog suggests otherwise Originally by: "ccp" Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money. The suggesting is there are a 'number' of cases where this has happened in the past using real world money trade for isk. This, it is alluded to, is very naughty and should be stamped out. Yet the 90bill per day CCP sponsored GTC to ISK is ok dokey. Spend it on what ya want - we dont care. My argument is less about the ethics of the GTC trade, and more about CCPs greenwashing of whats a nice little earner for them. They should come right out with it. Theres been a number of cases recently where the PR machine has churned out some rather ripe material. This should be stamped out. CCP should come out of the closet (so to speak) SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:05:00 - [7] Well Im going to take the rare step of quoting one of the posters on this forum i respect the most.... Me :)Lets take a look at the thread I randomly chose earlier: Originally by: Le Skunk This shows your ignorance of the issue. Yes people do buy carriers on their paypal accounts. People sell 10 or 20 or 30 GTC in one sitting. In fact heres one selling 15 at a time from the front page of the GTC bizarre (started 15 mins after i made this thread) - Free bump for him. Get em while they are hot. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744843 Nothing wrong with what hes doing. Its all CCP legal. SKUNK 15 GTC Sold in one sitting. Mysterious names purchasing them I took a quick look to see how he did. All cards sold out rapidly. And lets take a look at the names who bought them? Nothing suspicious about them is there? The guy who owns the account just likes mashing his keyboard for a name. 10 GTC Sold in one sitting. Mysterious names purchasing them A quick look on page 1 of the GTC bizaree reveals another thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=745167 Some dude selling 10 GTC in one sitting. Some interesting 'keyboard mash' names in there as well buying GTC. Seems perhaps GTC sales are not just being bought by 'poor little mrs miggins who cant afford to pay her subscription'. 100 GTC Sold - 28 Billion isk via credit card Lets take another look (and remember this is page 1 of the bizaree. I spent 30 seconds looking to pull out these three threads) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=421382 This dudes sold nearly 100* GTC. 28 billion isk in his hand. Dont misunderstand me - The individual players are not doing anything wrong as such. They just arnt playing the same game as the rest of us. Seen a tasty item on auction - Sell GTC and outbid all the players who earned isk properly. Why grind your mission standings up to get access to good agents.. sell GTC and buy a char/ Why progress up the skill chain -.. sell gtc and buy a char Why mine - sell GTC Why trade - sell GTC Made an enemy in game... sell GTC and set mercs on them. Ruin their game by paying in dollars. Aint EVE great CCP may as well have a log in screen where the rich can type in cheat codes.. hold down shift and type INFINICASH.. just have your credit card ready. ________________________________________________________ CCP have said: "some people call us hypocrites because we allow the ISK for ETCs but not ISK for RL money and claim this is the same thing. Nothing could be farther from the truth; the differences are enormous." I say the differences are NOT enormous. In fact the are closer then most would like to admit. "Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset." This is not true. 90 Billion isk is traded in GTC per day. It would be very easy to gather 'tens of billions' of ISK. And the game balance IS at risk. "Corporations, or even Alliances, should not be able to fuel their wars and other activities like they have done in a number of cases with ISK bought for real world money." GTC trading DOES enable people to fuel their wars and (catch all term) 'their activities'. Very easily. This DOES upset the game balance Stop misleading us CCP. Stop the (as another poster called them) 'sanctamonious' posting. Stop demonising the dollar to isk trade when probably half the alts in the game are funded by your own version of it. *Stop demonising the 'isk farmers' when its beyond doubt that many of them are purchasing the very GTC you are selling. Theres nothing wrong with CCP making money. Just come out with it and stop the preaching. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.09 16:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Overwhelmed Skunk, please use your powers of manipulating the sheep-masses with sensationalist prose for good, not evil. http://www.savethewhales.org/ People these whales are DYING man. People are eating them and stuff. FOR BREAKFAST. Dig Deep. SELL A GTC AND DONATE TO THE CAUSE SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.10 22:38:00 - [9] Edited by: Le Skunk on 10/04/2008 22:43:41 Edited by: Le Skunk on 10/04/2008 22:41:43 Skunk is is terribly mistaken. Skunk wants us to think he earns his "isk properly" just because he doesn't sell a gtc here or there. The problem is I think Skunk earns his isk quite improperly because he plays too much eve. He probably doesn't know what the outside of his PARENTS house looks like because he hasn't left basement since Junior high school when that first girl he tried to kiss rejected him. And his mum keeps harping at him about getting this thing called a JOB which involves getting out of the house for 8+ hours stretches(oh the horror, how could he make isk "properly" without 12 to 16 hours of playtime a day???!!!!) So in short, guys like skunk deserve to "rule eve" because their dysfunctional, f-d up, broke-arse, selves are afforded access to inordinate, unhealthy, and irresponsible amounts of playtime. And with the ultimate ironic twist skunk says that people GTC because they are "lazy" or "poor" players at Eve. It never finds its way into the qaugmire that is skunks brain that perhaps the terms "lazy" and "poor" do apply to someone in this argument, and it's not who he thinks Dont mention the J word please [EDIT] Also one wonders why you are so up tight.. ahh a multiple time code seller http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=710995&page=1#1 [EDIT] Also this poster is (suprise suprise) outbidding honest players for officer items http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=729792&page=1#12 I bet the guys you outbid using out of game curency are really glad for you. This poster is almost a classic example of the immorality of the GTC to ISK trade. Want the hakim office webber? Just buy it with dollars. Simple. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.10 23:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Suzzy Quan Originally by: Le Skunk immorality of the GTC to ISK trade. SKUNK Skunk, the King of Morality!!!!! All bow and know that the light of TRUTH of SKUNK from the bowels of mummies basement is upon us in all it's jobless glory! You bought a stack of gamtimecards using out of game currency. You traded these cards for isk. You used this isk to outbid other honest players for a rare officer item. Is this immoral of you? Perhaps. Is it immoral of CCP to allow this. Perhaps. Is it obscene that CCP churn out holier then thou devblogs trying to say that 90 bill a day of GTC sales dont afffect the 'game balance' when you yourself have affected the game balance for at least two players by outbidding them on an officer mod. Thats 1 player selling time cards who has affected the game balance. If you multiple that by the 90 billion isk a day traded for dollars legally by CCP. It astounds me the general eve public are willing to tolerate the sort of propoganda stuck out by ccp in their devblogs. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.11 00:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Siresa Talesi Originally by: Le Skunk You used this isk to outbid other honest players for a rare officer item. This is where you fail. How does using an allowed, legit, and sanctioned mechanic make a player dishonest? You want to talk "holier than thou" statements? You'd better start looking at yourself. You may not like that players are able to take a particular action, but it does not make them any less honest than you. Labelling them as such with no justification other than your own opinion makes you the hypocrite here. The morality of CCP's PR campaigns may be debatable, but you gain no ground in your argument against them if you resort to the same tactics you accuse them of. Forgive me for now and again using an adjective or two in an effort to raise my post from a dry lawyer apporved bore fest. I could write "players who earn all their isk in game without purchasing GTC from CCP or an approved seller using real world currency and subsequently trade that GTC via the secure method for a corrosponding amount of ingame currency" Or I could use a single word which conveyed my meaning to you perfeclt. Your picking at holes. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.11 01:26:00 - [12] Originally by: Siresa Talesi Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Siresa Talesi Originally by: Le Skunk You used this isk to outbid other honest players for a rare officer item. This is where you fail. How does using an allowed, legit, and sanctioned mechanic make a player dishonest? You want to talk "holier than thou" statements? You'd better start looking at yourself. You may not like that players are able to take a particular action, but it does not make them any less honest than you. Labelling them as such with no justification other than your own opinion makes you the hypocrite here. The morality of CCP's PR campaigns may be debatable, but you gain no ground in your argument against them if you resort to the same tactics you accuse them of. Forgive me for now and again using an adjective or two in an effort to raise my post from a dry lawyer apporved bore fest. I could write "players who earn all their isk in game without purchasing GTC from CCP or an approved seller using real world currency and subsequently trade that GTC via the secure method for a corrosponding amount of ingame currency" Or I could use a single word which conveyed my meaning to you perfeclt. Your picking at holes. SKUNK Either you're willfully ignorant of your own blatant hypocrisy, or you're an idiot. You accuse CCP of being "holier than thou" in their devblogs, yet you claim the right to declare who is honest and who is not. Those you call dishonest have broken no rules, have deceived no one, and have not taken advantage of any exploit. Yet your word is enough to condemn them and raise yourself to a moral high ground of your own design. The very fact that you can not even recognize the significance of your words reveals your sanctimonious attitude even more. You can do no wrong, your opinion is law, all others must conform to your ideals. Like I said, if you're going to accuse someone of a failing, you had better make sure you don't exhibit the same flaw, or your credibility is worthless. Dude stop with the sophistry. It was meant in terms of 'an honest days graft'. You knew EXACLTY what i meant. I even clarified it for you in my reply. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.11 02:57:00 - [13] Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/04/2008 02:57:06 Originally by: Pan Crastus yes, we know CCP is being bigoted about it ... but hey, it would cost them 3.5m/year (possibly more) to be honest about RMT, that's a lot of gourmet sandwiches. LOL :) Originally by: MotherMoon WOW YOUR IGNORANT! I still don't understand where the **** this 90 billion isk a day is coming form. Who has this isk you speak of? What players need 10,000 years of game time a day? Rough figures are in the OP. Go read it. Also get yourself a calculator. SKUNK

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

There are 11 similar pages for the day

3.5 million dollars a year.